May 11, 2011

Posted by in News | 43 Comments

Ask A Jedi: The Mandalorian Mistake

If you spend any time on the official Star Wars: The Old Republic forums, you are sure to have seen his passion and prose regarding all things Jedi. You know him as Professor Walsh. Each week (or thereabouts,) Professor Walsh will answer a few reader-submitted questions in order to enlighten us all with the ways of the Jedi. You can submit your own question at the end of the article!


Hello everyone! Professor Walsh here…. Time for another edition of Ask A Jedi!

This week pickings were a little slim, I guess everyone else had questions regarding the dropped embargoes or something. However, I did get a nice spattering in my inbox this week, so I decided pick one of the more interesting ones.

Our first question comes from a poster at the official TOR forums, and he has asked that he remain nameless:

“Hey Professor, I’ve recently gotten into Star Wars books and I just read the “Legacy of the Force” series. I’m confused. When was it established that Boba Fett had killed more Jedi than anyone else?”

Well Anonymous, this one is actually extremely good, and I had to gather a lot of sources to answer it… Meaning I have spent a lot of time on this one question and the answer is a long one. So if you need to use the bathroom or want something to drink, you might wish to do so before you continue to read on. I’ll wait.

Are you back already?

Good, let us continue.

Now, to start with, all I can say is: “Welcome to the writing style of Karen Traviss.”

Who is Karen Traviss and what does she have to do with this? Well I am about to get to that.

Karen Traviss is a former Star Wars author who is most well known for her contributions to the Star Wars line in the form of the Republic Commando series as well as one of the three authors who worked on the Legacy of the Force series. She also has a real fascination with Mandalorians and their culture which has prompted her to create a fictional language for them. She also has never read a Star Wars book that she didn’t write.

Wait… What?

Yeah, that was about my reaction too. Karen Traviss never read Star Wars and knew very little about the canon. So she turned the Mandalorians (who were previously depicted as very blood-thirsty, honorable, space Vikings) into a group of peace-loving farmers with strong family values that only fight when they have no choice and whose only flaw is that they love their people too much.

Traviss also has a serious dislike for the Jedi and the Sith. She sees the Jedi and the Sith, (and no I am not making this up, it was actually heavily discussed by her on her own blog,) as kind of the Star Wars version of the Nazi party. She saw them as a “Master Race” group who believed that people who didn’t have their abilities were lesser beings.

In Karen’s mind Boba Fett, Jango Fett, and the Mandalorians were part of a mysterious trinity in Star Wars of the three most powerful groups: The Jedi, the Sith, and the Mandalorians. She claimed that the Mandalorians kept the Jedi and the Sith in line and were awesome because they didn’t have the Force.

Karen Traviss, in her novels, had every character (even ones who had no reason to) speak or think in Mandalorian, revere Mandalorians, and be in awe of Mandalorians. This included, but was not limited to, Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo, Han Solo, Leia Organa Solo, Jacen Solo, and pretty much everyone else. She received so much criticism about this behavior that she frequently got into screaming matches with Star Wars fans and participated in flame wars on various message boards and her own personal blog. She referred to fans of the Jedi as Nazi sympathizers and dubbed them, and I quote: “Talifans”

In the Legacy of the Force series she forced in Boba Fett and the Mandalorians. They did not need to be in the series and were, from indications of the other writers, never intended to be there. She regularly took the time to show the superiority of the Mandalorians by indicating that they could easily have killed Darth Caedus and by bad mouthing the Jedi as the, again I quote: “Bathrobe Brigade”

Then the debacle you mentioned happened.

Jaina Solo, after having decided that she had to take down her brother, decided to get special training. So she went to Luke Skywalker, her uncle and the Jedi Grandmaster, who had defeated Jacen Solo in the previous book, and asked for his permission to go train with Boba Fett and the Mandalorians because, in her words, he had killed more Jedi than anyone else and she needed to learn how to defeat Jacen Solo. Luke saw her logic and agreed with her plan to learn from the Mandalorians because they were the only people who could teach her how to defeat Jacen Solo.

Note: I am not misrepresenting the above facts either, that is indeed what happened in the book.

Common sense would state that she would learn from Luke because he had just beaten Caedus. Instead he can only think that the Mandalorians are so much better at it than he is and thus he tells her to seek out the Mandalorians. That part of the book gave me a migraine at the sheer amount of mental gymnastics that were required for that to make any sense.

So Jaina packs her things and heads to Mandalore.

On Mandalore we learn a number of things that have no bearing on the main story at all. The Mandalorians have discovered a massive vein of Mandalorian Iron, super metal that can stop lightsabers (though not anymore in canon) and is better than any other metal. This will allow them to become the most powerful faction in Star Wars as it will give them the best armor, weapons, and space craft.

In fact the book spends a huge amount of time going on about Mandalorian Iron. What does this have to do with the rest of the plot to the Legacy of the Force?

… Absolutely nothing.

I’m not kidding here readers; this had nothing to do with the resolution of the series. It was simply done so that the Mandalorians can be established as one of the most influential factions in the modern day of Star Wars. It was like reading a massive batch of filler where plot should have been.

So, on Mandalore Jaina Solo is beaten silly by Mandalorians, mocked by them to the point that she literally broke down in tears, and is made to question everything about the universe including the Jedi.

Jaina is completely flabbergasted by how armor and weapons that could block lightsabers “changed the game” of combat. The Mandalorians also have a super-technique that can let them disappear from the Force. Together these two factors, armor that can stop lightsabers and the ability to not be felt in the Force, completely confounded Jaina who had no idea how to handle it.

Now, the above might make sense if the book series “New Jedi Order” had not been read.

In “New Jedi Order,” the Jedi and the Republic faced off against the Yuuzhan Vong. A race of invaders who could not be felt in the Force and who had lightsaber resisted armor and weapons. Jaina became a battle hardened Jedi fighting them and developed the techniques to deal with them.

Yes, that is correct. Jaina Solo, the Sword of the Jedi. The person who developed the techniques used to fight enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force had no idea how to deal with enemies who had lightsaber resistant armor and weapons and who could not be felt within the Force. This is because Karen Traviss had not read the New Jedi Order and did not know the lore and the back story of the character she was writing.

So having all of that explained I can now get back to the original question.

When was Boba Fett established as the grand high king of Jedi killing?

Never.

Boba Fett has never been shown “on screen” (meaning in any novel, comic, game, movie, or TV show) to kill a Jedi. He claims to have done it, yes. He has a lightsaber, but that isn’t proof of anything nor does it speak of the volume or the quality of his opponents.

If we go on the evidence that we do have, such as the battle at Jabba’s sail barge in Episode VI, it is clear that Boba Fett has very little experience actually fighting Jedi. He makes every rookie mistake in the book, up to and including jumping into melee range while holding a blaster with a Jedi wielding a lightsaber. There is no reason to believe that Boba Fett has killed more Jedi than anyone else, it was just Karen Traviss not understanding the source material, continuity, or canon of Star Wars.

I’d love to hear your thoughts below, especially if you’re Karen Traviss.

Lego Luke

  1. even if i am a fan of the “Mandalorian culture” i think Karen took to much liberty with legacy of the force the republic commando books were good and mandalorians were not to much “over powered” over the jedi and sith. In legacy of the force she did a power trip and now all mandalorians are in “god mode” she should have sticked with the space viking.

    Now that i remember she is working on a halo book set after halo 3 i am scared, i hope she will at least play the games or read the books this time… and wiki is not so bad if you want a good summary.

    • Lethality says:

      Yeah, I agree. I usually learn a lot about lore from the Prof and this one threw me. I am a fan of the Mandos but… she definitely took it out of bounds.

      • also, she did not took the time to think about the numbers if i remember correctly in her books she said the clone army had something like 1.5-3 million troops, it’s non-sense considering the U.S. army today (i am not american btw) with 1 500 000 troops.

        my point is:
        1 500 000 troops = 1 country
        3 000 000 troops = 1 galaxy
        mathematically this dose not scale right.

        • Your forgetting that a great number of battles in the Star Wars universe take place in space, not to mention that they were cloning troops that took 10 years to mature, and it was only after they realized they needed more that they switched to the shorter maturation clones that still took at least a year to develop.

      • MasterJS says:

        Wow I had no idea she did that or thought that way about Jedi/Sith! LOL I learned a lot today. At any rate I actually liked the RC Series, because it presented the Jedi/Sith from a different perspective and it was one which seemed to very much parallel the way the galaxy viewed them by then anyways, (Order 66) so it didn’t seem entirely unfair. But I had no idea about her darker side, in the Legacy Series. All I can say is wow that is pretty messed up…SHE is the scary one…(ref to her blog that was linked)…seriously…. I unfortunately am one of the people who didn’t really know much of Mandos until RC Series, but the way she portrayed them in the series diverged strongly from what I did know. Canderous Ordo is a much more accurate depiction of “real” Mandalorians, but I can definitely see how the two portrayals of Mandalorians and their culture can coincide, for the most part. Therefore, I am still a fan of Mandalorian culture as they do have “a rugged sense of honor and strive for self-improvement.” (paraphrased quote from swtor time line) However, I am a much more educated fan than I was LOL. Oh and I wish the splinter group following Mandalore the Preserver would have survived, but surely there must be some survivors of that group, as individual Mandalorians in the game, who knows maybe they’ve started to reemerge…it would be nice if they would become more Republic/Jedi allied as their culture seems to be more of a Grey line between honorless butchers and honorable warriors. LOL but alas, their biggest trademark has been their vaunted independence…..they just tend to get manipulated by the Sith a lot…cuz they can appeal to the darker side of their culture better than Jedi can, LOL. I kind of hope the Jedi Knight ends up having a Mandalorian Companion some how.

        • Andy Jacobs says:

          Remember the Dark Side does not mean Sith, but the Sith follow Dark Side ideals. That being, love, passion, and attachment. Alongside those come hate, anger, and still passion. From someone who upholds family values. The dark side is much more appeal-able than the stoic light side which suppresses love and family. Also, Mandos are acknowledged to be an Empire able to invade the Republic back before KOTOR that were only stopped by Revan and Malak. They have common ideals and interests with the dark side and therefore the Sith.
          In regards to Karen Traviss not reading Star Wars books, she does not read many books period. She makes most of her living off her novels but herself does not enjoy reading because she likes visual things such as games, movies, comics, and more.
          She also accepts that the Mandos are brutal. The beloved Kal Skirata of the Republic Commando Series is portrayed as loving and harsh. Most of what is said is of the family values but she does not cover up the fact that they are mercenaries often or that they are harsh. She just gives them a point of view.
          THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR PEOPLE WHO HATE THE CULTURE FOR BEING VIOLENT BEFOREHAND.
          So called “bad people” as you see it don’t typically think of themselves as bad people. It is a different outlook in Star Wars that fits in with canon (By the way I am talking about ONLY REPUBLIC COMMANDO, I have not read Legacy of the Force). Her views in Republic Commando about the Jedi are completely valid and fit with the perspective of her characters.

  2. DJ Shadow says:

    Just learned something new today. I knew how bad Karen had trashed the Jedi and the pedastal on which she had placed the Mando’s. I was warned by several friends and fansites to avoid her work. Just the mention of her almost turned me away from this article and now I wish I hadn’t read it. :P

    It’s no wonder everyone and their son wants to be a Mando. I never understood why so many people WORSHIPPED them. Thanks Prof.

    • Hopefully most people (like me) were fans of the mandos before learning of this debauchery. ;}

      • I was a fan before they were just “Normal humans with a mildly different culture and special spaztastic armor”.

        You know, when the Sith War meant the near-collapse of the republic under the assault by three armies (one made up of the Mandalorians).

  3. Azrayel says:

    I have to say, if you’re a writer and you spend a lot of time in a universe if you have info available but choose not to your either the most insane or idiotic writer ever… But it seems to me that there were 2 mistakes made. 1 she was arrogant enough to think “I will make up my own information” in a universe full of canon. 2 Why Lucasarts allowed this writer to butcher, literally in the case of some star wars heroes, the lore.
    There is no sense in it. I understand they have since parted ways, I can only hope that someone went “wtf? We let this happen? Dear god get me that phone I need to fire the hell out of some people”.

    There are polite rules if you’re working together in a universe with other writers… One is don’t force feed your views in… Another is don’t disregard other people’s work for your own rules. As someone who has ghost-written and also partnered in some pre-established lore worlds I find what was done here was just insane. I would have tossed my pen down in horror if this had happened.

    As to her reaction to the fan’s…. Anyone knows you don’t “Ahem” where you eat. Or in more polite terms, don’t turn on the fans, they buy your books and put food on your table.

    • MasterJS says:

      Yup I totally agree, I actually like reading books that completely differ to my own philosophy (but in her blog she states that most people don’t read anything but to confirm their own biases and that scares her, LOL sounds like she is one of them, not reading anything other than what she wrote? WTH? How can you possibly be a fair or balanced writer, a good one if you don’t examine the other sides point of view from their perspective?) because it gives you a different, healthier perspective and it can A)help you understand an opposing viewpoint (if you don’t go in with the mentality to refute/disagree with everything they say from the start) B) help reconfirm or bolster what you believe, because of what your opponents say/how they present their arguments, and/or C) show you that you might be wrong, or that your views could use some adjusting….. I am primarily a Jedi Knight/Light Sided, self sacrificial type of a thinker, but here are the Star Wars books I’ve fully read (that I can think of off the top of my head): Star Wars Cloak of Darkness (I think that’s the title –> one with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon before Ep I, the death of Obi’s classmate and then the second half having Obi training Anakin and Obi’s past comes back to haunt him –> unless I’m getting two books mixed up), Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Rule of Two, Dynasty of Evil, Republic Commandos: Order 66, Star Wars: Fatal Alliance and I think there is one other Jedi centered/protagonist book that I think I’ve read but can’t recall currently. I want to read the other books in the Republic Commando’s series, I’ve thought about Deceived, but I think I’ve got a healthy dose of the darkside with Drew Karpyshyn (sorry Drew I have to copy and paste ur last name via Google search most every time LOL, but I too have a very hard to remember last name for most people it seems) and I absolutely, positively HAVE to read REVAN!!! As he is my favorite Star Wars character of all time!

      No, not, because he was a very powerful Sith Lord and a courageous, bold, practical Jedi, but because he walked down both paths of the Force and survived…he isn’t the epitome of evil but he is also a far cry from the ideal of good at times…he came back, because of Love (Bastila) and brought her back through the same means as well. It’s just an Epic story with incredibly deep and thought provoking characters. I can’t wait to see how Drew brings him out in Revan, even if it doesn’t line up completely with “my Revan,” because Revan isn’t really my character at all, I just want to see how the writers envision him, but I’m pretty sure Drew’s portrayal of Revan would probably coincide well with how I interpreted their character to be….CAN’T WAIT!!!

  4. “… peace-loving farmers with strong family values that only fight when they have no choice and whose only flaw is that they love their people too much.”

    What a load of biased bollocks.

    Let’s put some reality into this. Yes, she wrote *some* of them as having farmer backgrounds — pretty natural for a largely undeveloped world. She also wrote about others who were quite technological; like the guys working at MandalMotors.

    Peace loving? Nope. You seem to have that confused with the flavour of Mando’s that the recent Clone Wars series unveiled. And that had nothing to do with Traviss; infact she quit BECAUSE of the peace loving Mando’s in that series.

    The moral of the story being, if you’re going to put yourself up on a pedestal as being able to answer people’s questions, why not try and answer them correctly and without bias? Otherwise, why bother?

    • Azrayel says:

      Nope, I’m afraid your wrong here… Check out all the story before you judge. Yes Clone Wars added to the Mando Canon but it was already stated prior to this as well.

    • I completely agree. While I can’t speak definitively on Karen Traviss’s writings as a whole, having never read all of her work for Legacy of the Force (and tbh never finishing that series) I have read the RC series (and at least one of her LotF books) and her portrayal in this is completely biased and spun worse than a Bill O’Reilly monologue.

      1. Mando’s were not seen as peace loving farmers. Rather, those born on Mandalore often were farmers before space vikings/mercenaries similar to their historical analogues. However, the majority of Mando characters met in her books never picked up a spade and didn’t come from a peace loving planet. As you said, it was making them thus in the Clone Wars cartoon that caused her break with Star Wars.

      2. Talifan was not coined by Kariss to mock people who enjoyed the Jedi v Sith perspective of Star Wars. It was coined to denote a few fans who took to personal attacks and harassment mostly about the 3million clone number.

      Here’s a link: http://starfleetjedi.net/wiki/index.php?title=Talifan

      You seem to think that she completely disregarded previous Star Wars works and “went rogue” inside of LucasArts or something, which I honestly don’t even see how that is possible considering the amount of interaction and oversight she had to have been apart of to be one of the three LotF authors. She also seems to completely understand the history of the Mandalorians and their role in the Galactic history.

      You make not like what she wrote, and you may disagree with her point of view, but at the very least show the common courtesy to not libel her injudiciously, you ass (to the author of the article, not the person I’m quoting)

      I wish your (the response poster) was higher up

  5. I couldn’t stand the Traviss novels and I’m glad she’s no longer writing in the Star Wars Universe. That’s really all I have to say.

  6. Jordan Burke says:

    See, here’s the disconnect I have: I absolutely love the RC books, and the culture created for the Mando’ade. They definitely weren’t peace loving, I think this is a misconception based on the fact that Kal and the other Mandos he was close to were all tired of fighting someone else’s war. Especially in the sense that men, who he adopted as his sons (which, looking at his back story, you can see that as a reflection of his experiences vs. a normal Mando life), were treated as assets and had no rights as sentient being.

    But then the LotF books… well, I had to stop reading those. To be fair, after the NJO, which I loved, the EU novels just became more and more… grandiose. They remind me a lot of the KJA novels and the period of the initial class at the Jedi Praxeum, where in each book and author, they try to one-up the previous author and story in terms of villians and story. It just felt very tired – “Well, we just defeated a super powered Sith ghost and sun destroyer and OMG THERE’S A NEW DEATH STAR. BUILT BY THE HUTTS.” (Though I may be biased, I was pissed at the cop out death they gave Madine, he deserved better.)

    Anyway, point of all this: if we look at what she added to the Mando culture prior to LotF, I think it’s great. I choose to ignore the rest.

    • Which is why I am beginning to transition into TOR novels that are coming out. They should stop progressing forward with the old story of Luke and his Jedi, a time period spanning decades, to filling in the vast empty spaces in TOR that span centuries.

      I don’t know about you, but I would really enjoy reading a book about the Great Hyperspace War, or the mando invasion of coruscant

      • she didn’t just change them like that they already got changed because of jaster mareel, mandalore who stops there blood lust and he is in open seasons and some things, idk if karenw rote those but there is reason, and death watch who broke off prove some ppl didn’t agree, and death watch are adopted into even the show, so its cannon

  7. As bad as she is, I believe that Troy Denning is just as bad or maybe even worse because his rape-age of Star Wars goes unnoticed.

  8. I understand the problems with karen Travis’s writing style but I also understand a need to create something cool to take on the Jedi. Mandalorians are cool. “All powerfull Jedi/Sith” get boring after a while. If she checked up on the lore she would have found out that Mando metal already existed. It’s called cortosis. She could have said that a Mando clan found a huge veign of Cortosis, on some obsure asteroid no one knew about and started making armor from it. No need to make new Mando Metal and annoy some people.

    • Cortosis isn’t “mando metal”, it’s a fibrous mineral that is highly resistant to heat and energy, however it is also very brittle. In it’s pure form it also shorts out lightsabers temporarily http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cortosis.

      What you call “mando metal” is actually Beskar or Mandalorian Iron (since it is only found on Mandalore and it’s moon) and it is VERY different from cortosis and Traviss did NOT come up with it, it’s been around for quite a long time.
      http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

      Before you decide to bash an author, you should really do some actual research.

  9. Woooow, I’d pay for proof that she never shtooped GL.

  10. I’ve never seen this badmouthing of jedi that this Prof. speaks of, and I’ve only heard the accusations hurled at her from angry fans who in my opinion believe anyone or anything that is shown to have strength even remotely equal to the jedi or sith is instantly a horrible idea and star wars blasphemy. I read all the republic commando books and I loved them. I never got the feeling she bad-mouthed the jedi, and for those that say she made them seem arrogant and that they thought they were better than others..have you ever seen the movies or played any of the games? Jedi are portrayed as being somewhat haughty and superior all the time, and it’s only a few here and there that are humble and down to earth (qui-gon, old obi-wan, luke, yoda..and thats about it) Karen Traviss is a fantastic author who got a seriously bum rap, she got screwed over big time, after writing what could have been just the beginning of a great series, the clone wars cartoon (which is ust god-awful) came out and destroyed the canon she had established with her books.

    • Glorfindel says:

      you don’t know what you’re talking about…

    • “I read all the republic commando books and I loved them. I never got the feeling she bad-mouthed the jedi,…”

      You didn’t notice the dozens of times Jusik and Etain mentally questioned the Council’s authority throughout the books?…
      (‘¬_¬)

      • Well, the Jedi Deserved it. They did accept a slave army, a fact that is was not really discussed all that much. I think she added a lot of reasoning on why the jedi fell and why they were blind to Palpatine’s nature; They could not see the darkness in him because they were blinded by the darkness within themselves.

        Besides, she does describe the force in ways never before done, and makes it easier to comprehend and grasp. Instead of having the Jedi appear as invincible immortals with immense power, she successfully shows them to be the mortals that we know they are.

      • Well, the Jedi Deserved it. They did accept a slave army, a fact that is was not really discussed all that much. I think she added a lot of reasoning on why the jedi fell and why they were blind to Palpatine’s nature; They could not see the darkness in him because they were blinded by the darkness within themselves.

        Besides, she does describe the force in ways like never before, making it easier to comprehend and grasp. Instead of having the Jedi appear as invincible immortals with immense power, she successfully shows them to be the mortals that we know they are.

  11. Ok. I never really knew her actual views on mandalorians because i don’t dive into the people who write them. I always liked Mandalorians and my liking of them jumped into obsession after i read the RC books. The only things i knew about karen was that she posted an entire mandalorian dictionary (which i have now) and that she made one of the mandalorians gay in the legacy of the force series… I did not read that series because of that. I am not a supporter of gays. sorry. but anyway I really liked the way she portrayed them in the RC books and I stick very faithfully to that ideal of them. I hate how they have made mandalorians into with the new Clone Wars series. its insulting and contradicts all the “canon” i knew and loved. for me. the Clone Wars series never existed.

  12. I actually didn’t have a problem with introducing Fett (at least) into the LotF series; it was a nice touch, and “Bloodlines” wasn’t the worst book she’s written, in my opinion.

    But after finishing “True Colors” recently, I never want to read another of her books again. >_<' I've felt the same way towards her, gushing over the Mandos and clones. I'm as much of a fanboy as the next SW-nerd, but LORD, did she go over the top….

  13. Karen Traviss was only voicing the opinons of her Characters.
    And lets face it,the rest of the people in the galaxy dont have the force, so why would they not regard the Jedi with fear and suspicion? I know I would if they were real.

  14. Okay, supreme Jedi.

    So what you’re saying is, her idea of turning them from mindless Barbarians to more of a Wolf pack kind’ve group is dumb, but the great George Lucas turning them into peace loving nuts was the right way to go?

    This site is Askajedi, askamandalorian and I bet they’d worship Karen as Mandalore. She wanted to bring a different light to SW, no force? no problem!

  15. I am glad to see there are others willing to call out her books for what they are rather than heap praise upon them and ignoring their many flaws.
    Quite how the blind fanatic managed to gain so much of a fandom by dumbing down so much of the Star Wars universe and turning it into her personal soapbox I will never understand. Nor how she manages to keep getting work despite almost wrecking one fictional universe beyond repair.

    • You say she took it as her soapbox, but let me ask you this. If a writer has nothing to say, then the story is boring. Karen Traviss had somethign to say and she wanted to share it. It was a great take on the Jedi-clone relationship

  16. Ok, So I know your post is old, but that does not excuse its inaccuracy nor its slanderous nature. Bravo to you successfully taking an innocent question and twisting it politician-style to needlessly attack Karen Traviss. Lets start picking apart this argument

    “She also has never read a Star Wars book that she didn’t write.”
    This is true, from a certain point of view kind of thing. But if you take into consideration what I am about to say, then its clear that its false. Karen Traviss has never read another NOVEL that she didn’t write. She has, however, read the comic books and played several of the games, which is quite obvious if you have read her RC series. In the Republic Commando series, she cites events such as the Battle of Galidraan and citing the fact that Jango killed Jedi with his bare hands, all of which occured in the canonical comic book series, Open Seasons. She also references canderous Ordo, Which he either appears in the KTOR games or the older comics, I don’t remember which.

    Well, why doesn’t she read the novels you ask? Simple. She hates novels. Hates writing them, hates reading them. Now hold on a minute before you go on a rant about it being impossible for a novelist to not like writing novels and hear me out. She only writes novels as they are her main source of income. Her true passion is writing comic books and writing story lines for video games(notice the connection to my earlier statements?). She recently was hired as the main writer for gears of war 3, which is a fantastic story.

    I would also like to point out that authors have little to no need to read ALL the star wars novels, as they have people there that make sure that what they are writing is canonical. Infact, the only conflict with canon in Karen Traviss’ RC novels was the number of troops, as the 3 million she gives is quite small on a planetary scale, much less a galactic one.

    I would also like to point out at this point that George Lucas HIMSELF has read less than 25% of all the starwars books out there. Alright, next topic.

    “…peace-loving farmers with strong family values that only fight when they have no choice and whose only flaw is that they love their people too much.”

    Wait, What? Uhh, last I checked, those were the Clones and Skirata– who was retiring– and not the majority of Mandalorians who were bounty hunters and mercenaries. I am beginning to doubt whether you actually read the books, or whether you merely skimmed. Need proof? Look at the mandos that attacked them when they went to get Ko Sai. Oh speaking of ko sai, what did they do to her again. SKINNED HER. Clearly peace-loving farmers.

    “Karen Traviss, in her novels, had every character (even ones who had no reason to) speak or think in Mandalorian, revere Mandalorians, and be in awe of Mandalorians. This included, but was not limited to, Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaina Solo, Han Solo, Leia Organa Solo, Jacen Solo, and pretty much everyone else. She received so much criticism about this behavior that she frequently got into screaming matches with Star Wars fans and participated in flame wars on various message boards and her own personal blog. She referred to fans of the Jedi as Nazi sympathizers and dubbed them, and I quote: “Talifans””

    Ok, this statement is irrelevant to the question you were asked, slanderous, and for the most part, probably untrue. In the LoF series, The only person I remember of being in awe of mandalorians as a whole was Jaina when she visted them. EVERYONE ELSE WAS AFRAID OF– you guessed it — Boba Fett, the Man who is, and I quote: “The most dangerous bounty hunter in the Galaxy.” End quote. This is a man who got in a fight with vader and not only escaped, but had an opportunity to strike him down. Luke, Leia, and Han are not reveling the mandos, they are in awe of BOBA FETT. There is significant validation for why they would fear and respect him, and if you need me to provide a list of evidence then you should shut up and hang your head low in shame, for you would not be the star wars fan you claim to be.
    Secondly, There is no reason to take those out-of-context words and try to use them as slander. If I really wanted to, I could make MLK sound like a racist, or Ghandi a murderer. For all I know from what you provided, Talifans could be an affectionate term. There is no context, and it serves no other purpose other than to tarnish karen traviss in the eyes of your audience. Shame on you for lowering your self to the level of politics. I thought you “Bathrobe brigadiers” stayed out of that stuff. Next!

    “I’m not kidding here readers; this had nothing to do with the resolution of the series. It was simply done so that the Mandalorians can be established as one of the most influential factions in the modern day of Star Wars.”

    Actually, the mandalorian involvement played a part in the conclusion of the series (cough, their raid, the moffs poisoning mandalore, cough) as well as set the stage for further progress along this story line in the Fate of the Jedi series. Have you ever heard of a Meta-story? It’s quite clear you have not.

    “Luke Skywalker, her uncle and the Jedi Grandmaster, who had defeated Jacen Solo in the previous book,”

    Defeated? HARDLY! Caedus nearly killed Luke by blowing up his X-wing! Just because one person runs away doesn’t necessarily means the other has won. Speaking of which, when are we going to address why luke suddenly has magical teleporting powers that he clearly never learned, and were never explained in the LoF series?

    “The Mandalorians have discovered a massive vein of Mandalorian Iron, super metal that can stop lightsabers (though not anymore in canon) and is better than any other metal. This will allow them to become the most powerful faction in Star Wars as it will give them the best armor, weapons, and space craft.”

    Actually, its lightsaber RESISTANT, not proof. Hence the fact that Caedus slaughters a large group of them. With a lightsaber. Secondly, it never allows them to become the most powerful faction in SW, as they clearly get crushed by the moffs. Thirdly, this is hardly “new” metal, as your statement alludes to it being. Its been around for a LOOOOOONG time, and makes appearances in several comic books and the RC novels. Im not going to argue with you on whether it was relevant to the story but I am going to point something out.

    At the time of the Legacy of the Force series, Karen Traviss was CONTRACTED by LucasArts to help write the story. She didn’t just write the books, she was OBLIGATED to. If you ask me, LucasArts got only what it asked for, so you can’t blame Karen Traviss for focusing on her favorite characters anymore than you can blame James Luceno for focusing on his. Yeah. I went there.

    “Jaina is completely flabbergasted by how armor and weapons that could block lightsabers “changed the game” of combat. The Mandalorians also have a super-technique that can let them disappear from the Force. Together these two factors, armor that can stop lightsabers and the ability to not be felt in the Force, completely confounded Jaina who had no idea how to handle it.”

    Ok, I do admit this part was a bit of a let down, and is mostly true. However, What follows is not.

    “This is because Karen Traviss had not read the New Jedi Order and did not know the lore and the back story of the character she was writing.”

    While it may be true that she did not read it, it is not the cause of the first statement. IF it were true, then how would Vong Hunter droids appear in her novels, and how would the Vong war be cited so often in her novels if she knew nothing of it? exactly. More baseless slander. And might I ask, DO you know how many Star Wars novels Timothy Zahn, the legendary writer, read? zip. Nada. None. Michael A. Stackpole didn’t read only a few. So if you are going to judge Karen Traviss for not reading other SW novels, then are you going to criticize Timothy too? At least try to be fair in your obviously biased statements.

    “When was Boba Fett established as the grand high king of Jedi killing?” you’re absolutely right. Nor was it ever stated that he was the king of jedi killing. He became the Manda’lor, the king of mandalorians, who happen to have an ANCIENT reputation for being jedi killers.

    “If we go on the evidence that we do have, such as the battle at Jabba’s sail barge in Episode VI, it is clear that Boba Fett has very little experience actually fighting Jedi.”

    BWAHAHAHA! You’re funny. If jumping in and testing a jedi’s abilities, then going to a safe distance to wait for the right moment to shoot him is poor jedi fighting tactics, then I don’t know what is. While Han is recovering, Boba is clearly lined up, waiting for the perfect chance to take out luke while he is distracted. Which, I might add, is SUPERB strategy when you are fighting an experienced jedi, which boba learned when he jumped in close to Luke with a clear intention of intimidating him in order to take advantage of him.

    “There is no reason to believe that Boba Fett has killed more Jedi than anyone else, it was just Karen Traviss not understanding the source material, continuity, or canon of Star Wars.”

    You’re right on the first part, if you look at it from a nazist fanboy outlook and not from a character in the story. Again, we are talking about a man who is known throughout the galaxy. There are probably lots of legends and stories about him that Jaina, who is the person that says he is an expert at Jedi Killing, would not know whether they were true or false.
    Secondly, There is plenty of evidence.
    A) His father was Jango Fett, a man who killed jedi with his bare hands. Mando training starts at 4? Jango dies at 8. plenty of time for a father to teach his son a few tricks.
    B) He is a walking arsenal. ‘Nuff said.
    C) He got in a fight with Darth Vader. Had the opportunity to kill him, but chose not to.
    D) The man has wookiee braids on his shoulder for crying out loud.
    E) He’s incredibly perceptive, firing rapid shots at Luke to keep him busy on Bespin

    Need I go on? Didn’t think so.

    Furthermore, You clearly do not enjoy Karen Traviss’ style or writing. I can understand that. What I don’t understand is why you believe you have the justification to slander her name and her works with falsified evidence and pathetic rhetoric. For someone running an AskaJedi name, you know surprisingly little about the Star Wars universe. Perhaps you should actually read some of the books before you comment on them. Just a thought, Jetiise.

    “…prompted her to create a fictional language for them.”
    wrong. again. She and a group of other people created the language for use in the music featured in the Republic Commando video game.

    I Have never met another human being who knows as much Star Wars as I do. I own well over 100 books, 37 comics, and I like to browse wikipedia in my free time. You are no exception, Jetiise scum.

    I took this very personally as it was Karen Traviss’ books that not only inspired me to actually READ, but also made me realize I want to be a fiction writer.

    Ke nu’jurkadiir sha Mando’ade
    Don’t mess with mandalorians- Kal Skirata
    Advice you would be wise to follow, NER VOD.

  17. Daniel Britt says:

    I know this is a old post, but i’d like to put in my own two cents.
    First, it’s a story. It’s ment to entertain, it’s not a political statement or ment to have any truths. It’s just for fun.
    Second, many elements of the mandos existed before karen traviss. Mandalorian iron, for one, was encountered by exar kun before the RC books existed. Knights of the old republic comics depicted the mando wars, and they killed jedi loads of times. My point is that no one person influences the mandos. look at the clone wars, they took mandos a completely different direction.
    Third, Boba Fett wasn’t a badass bounty hunter anyway, until the EU. Many stories and comics were written after his defeat in RotJ. Before he was just a background character,no kewlness about him.
    All in all, i agree with George Lucas’s statement in response to the clone wars tv series complaints; it’s just a fictional place. Why get so upset or angry? It’s not real.

  18. I agree with a lot of what Arc 77 wrote; although I would have worded a with a bit more tact, no offense. Karen Traviss is a well-known political fiction writer and Lucas hired her for the sole purpose of building on the politics surrounding the Clone Wars. Perhaps she was biased towards Mandalorians, but, as a fiction writer, is that not her artistic right? As for her anti-Jedi sentiment, which I agree she had, I would go so far as to say that there’s been a bit of an anti-Jedi sentiment since Episode I at the latest. They were supposed to be a bit arrogant which is how Sidious hid so easily. Also, since she was writing from a Mandalorian perspective and since Mandalorians tend not to side with Jedi, that really just makes good sense. I do agree with the original point that she is not the most educated Star Wars fan on the planet, but that is not her job, it’s ours. What would we have to argue about if writers didn’t create the occasional canon tumor.
    As far as Karen fighting with her fans, well, can we be honest with ourselves for a second and admit that we can be pretty obnoxious? She’s just a writer hired for a job and she gets harassed about her writing, I think she has the right to be offended, but I haven’t read the blogs in question, so that’s all the opinion I can voice on that.
    And as far as my own soap box goes, I thought Karen was a much better writer than a lot of the Star Wars writers out there. She is well known and well written. Maybe you were unimpressed with her content, but was the style so bad? I found it hard to put down and disappointed when the books abruptly ended. I identified well with the clones’ plight. How would they have felt? Rapidly heading towards their inevitable dooms, one way or another, and fighting for these deified people who treat them like pawns. I thought Karen got that mood across pretty well. I like the new perspective. I also really like how she personified Boba Fett. Yeah, he was a back drop character, but the fans wanted him back, so Lucas brought him back. Who cares if he wants to be a family man in his 80s? Would you rather yet another stupid sarlacc story? No thank you. There are plenty of awful EU stories we could focus on instead of one with irritating subject matter for a few. Oh and Karen quit because lucasArts stopped paying her and expected her to keep writing. She talks about that in her blogs too. If you want to focus your anger for the annoyingly infrequent canon please direct your wrath at George Lucas, the true Dark Lord of the Sith. Not that he would care. Jar Jar anyone?
    Lastly, to the comment by Daniel Britt. It’s friggin’ Star Wars: that’s why we care. If Star Woids weren’t here to love and nourish the universe that Lucas abandoned for roughly fifteen years, it would’ve died out. Our obsessive love for Star Wars is what keeps the universe alive. George just doesn’t respect his fans because he only cares about realizing his story. Hence him going back every five years to change some random special effect or whatever, which is his prerogative as the Maker. Besides, you are on a blog called askajedi, did you think it would be full of rational down to earth muggles? WE ARE STAR WARS HEAR US ROAR. And scene.

    • Oh and as for the thing with Jaina being a baby about her Mando training: I got the impression that she was frustrated with how they fought, not the armor and the Force invisibility (which I honestly don’t remember). She complained that he was bludgeoning her to death when she’s used to fencing. Even the Vong fought with mostly projectiles and their little snake sticks weren’t thick hunks of metal like bes’kade. And the whole purpose of her training with the Mandos was to fight different than Jacen was used to. He’d trained with everyone else in the galaxy it seemed like. And Luke couldn’t get Jaina to where she needed to be because he spent decades honing his abilities and Jaina slacked off to fly. She didn’t have the time to beat Jacen through Jedi tactics. At least that the impression I got when I was reading.

  19. The Republic Commando books actually show a lot of awareness of previously-created lore. She incorporated Fenn Shysa from the old Marvel run of Star Wars comics, for crying out loud. And how is her depiction of the Mandalorians so different from being “space Vikings”? Take a look at the popular History Channel show “Vikings” (which wasn’t around yet when this post originally went up): Ragnar Lothbrok goes raiding in England and immediately starts thinking about acquiring land there for farming.

    I enjoyed the Republic Commando books quite a bit and enthusiastically recommend them. I never had any interest in The Legacy of the Force – or the New Jedi Order, or pretty much any of the EU as it got farther and farther out from RotJ; my avoiding them had nothing to do with Karen Traviss.

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