Sep 20, 2010

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Ask A Jedi: Most powerful Force-user ever? Also, Mandalorian Jedi Redux

If you spend any time on the official Star Wars: The Old Republic forums, you are sure to have seen his passion and prose regarding all things Jedi. You know him as Professor Walsh. Each week (or thereabouts,) Professor Walsh will answer a few reader-submitted questions in order to enlighten us all with the ways of the Jedi. You can submit your own question at the end of the article!

This week we got a whole mailbag to go through, so let me do my Ask A Jedi thing, and see what answers we can get out there!

First let us cover a follow up question from “Sneakymailman” where he writes:

Dear Jedi,

This isn’t a question, but its a comment/helpful answer to one of you’re previous questions. While there may not have been a Mandalorian Jedi in the sense you were talking, there was Bardan Jusik, who was a Jedi in the Clone Wars, then left the order to join the Skirata clan. He is force sensitive uses his force powers, and wears Mandalorian armor and is accepted in Mandalorian culture. So I think if there was ever a Mandalorian jedi, he would fit the bill. Hope this was helpful.

Dear Sneaky,

Bardan Jusik left the Jedi Order; he was not a Jedi any longer. He was a Force Sensitive and he engaged in the lifestyle and culture of the Mandalorians but he wasn’t a Jedi still. This is why I said that there were Mandalorian Force Users but not Mandalorian Jedi. He no longer follows the tenets and the code of the Jedi Order.

Next, from across the bay, meaning coming straight from the UK, comes this question from reader Snodge. Snodge writes:

Dear Jedi,

How do Jedi find force sensitive children to train? Considering the size of the Star Wars Universe, it must be a bit like finding a needle in a haystack.

Dear Snodge,

A few methods are used, and these differ from era to era. In the time of the Prequel Trilogy for example, children are tested via their blood, this looks for Midichlorians. In other eras the Jedi had seers who could foresee the birth of potential Jedi. In the era of the New Jedi Order children are taken to the Order to be tested voluntarily by their parents or guardians.

In all eras though, of course, there are people who slip through the cracks. There are some who are overlooked, like Anakin was, and there are others who distrust the Jedi or who don’t notice their children’s gifts (or can’t) and thus wouldn’t bring their children to be tested by them, as was the case with Zekk in the Young Jedi Knights. (Zekk was an orphan and so was never tested for Force Sensitivity despite knowing Jacen and Jaina Solo.)

Dedalek had this inquiry to share with Ask A Jedi:

Dear Jedi,

Who are the most powerful Force-users ever? I know many people think Vader was one of them, but honestly wasn’t he so great because there weren’t many Jedi who could challenge him? What about ancient Siths like Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd? Their power affected the galaxy centuries after their death.

Dear Dedalek,

You would be incorrect about Darth Vader; Darth Vader had, according to George Lucas, the highest Force Potential. His Force Potential however was damaged when his body was. There is no definitive list of who the most powerful Force Users were, but here are my top 5 and why I ranked them as such:

Luke Skywalker – Luke is the most powerful Force User we have ever seen. He is head and shoulders above all others at this time. The amazing things that he has been able to do dwarf everyone else, and also we know that he has the potential Darth Vader had but didn’t destroy his body the way Vader did.

Darth Sidious – Emperor Palpatine was, according to canon, the most powerful Sith ever, with the exception of Vader if his power was realized. As such we have to give him a high position on this list. Palpatine was defeated by Luke in a test of both Lightsaber combat and Force abilities though and was found lacking. Thus I put him right below Luke in terms of sheer power.

Yoda – I met him in a swamp down on Dagobah, where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda… Y-O-D-A Yoda. We have to give it up for the muppet master who taught us all that size matters not. Able to match Darth Sidious blow for blow, and even overpower him in a pinch Yoda only “lost” to Sidious due to his small stature. As such Yoda must rank in on this list.

Darth Vader – Vader was said to be somewhere around 80% of Sidious’ power, and he would have been stronger if he had not ignored the benefit of the high ground. While he is no slouch, he simply can’t rank any higher than this on my personal list.

Nomi Sunrider – I have to give Nomi her proper respect. She is a little known character outside of the high EU circles but she is one bad mamma jamma. Nomi Sunrider was able to cut a Dark Sider off from the Force until they completely repented, a feat normally requiring a whole group of Jedi Masters. Had she been the main character in KoTOR II she would have mopped the floor with Sion and Nihilus with ease.

Hardcore fans will note a couple of names are left off this list, the reason for that is because there are specifically two I did not consider as valid entries. That is because one is a planet and we have no clue what the other is supposed to be. That would be the planet Zonema Sekot and the creature known as Abeloth. I don’t count them under the general term of Force User.

Now we have a non-Jedi specific question from reader Totaldarkness, and they write:

Dear Jedi,

Given that BioWare has stuffed down the heroic and story aspect of the game, many people feel that resource gathering and crafting don’t fit into either aspect. I’ve also read that while “heroic story” is the main focus, developers have said ” were using the standard training thing. There are many, many places where you don’t want to over-think the story side compared to the gameplay. Story is hugely important, until it makes gameplay or economy worse. (Daniel Erickson)” So since crafting is directly related to economy do you think we can step out of the “heroic” and “story” box, and think what crafting might be?

Dear Totaldarkness,

I personally hope we don’t get a system like crafting from WoW or even Warhammer. I don’t think it feels very “Star Wars” to gather minerals and then turn those into components and then turn those into items. (Sorry SWG fans.) I have never seen that happen really in the movies or the books and as such I have to go with a resounding “no.” I hope that we get some kind of “assembling” system in TOR where we purchase components and put them together because that is what it seems people usually do in Star Wars.

Our final question this week comes from reader EinarKuusk::

Dear Jedi,

Were there Jedi Wizards who did not wear skirts but cool pants and robes in The Old Republic?

Dear Einar,

I don’t know, to be honest. I would assume so. I can tell you the following: Don’t knock the skirt. I recently saw some utilikilts being sold at DragonCon and those things are starting to become majorly main stream. So all I can say is if a Jedi has the legs for it they should walk around in their skirt proudly.

That is all the questions we have for this week, so until next time, this is ProfessorWalsh saying, “May the Force be with you.”

Lego Luke
Do you have a question for our Jedi-in-residence, Professor Walsh? Submit it via the form below, and we’ll be sure to pass it along to him when he emerges from meditation.

  1. So is Obi-Wan a Force-Sensitive in Episode IV? He willingly abandoned the Jedi Order. As did Yoda. I think saying when one leaves the Jedi Order they are no longer Jedi is rubbish. There is to many examples of people who leave the order, but are still refered to as Jedi. Revan was a Jedi even after he left the order, until he fell to the dark side. Jolee Bindo is also a good example.

    However this can all be debunked by just saying it’s KOTOR. But the fact is Jedi leave the order a lot. And although they’ve left they’re still Jedi.

    But my question really is, if you leave the order does that make you not a Jedi? Or does leaving the order and breaking the Tenets make you not a Jedi? Because either way there are multiple characters in which have left the order for what ever reason and have broken some tenets to return to the order. Qui-Gon Jinn comes to mind there.

    • Obi-Wan and Yoda did not abandon the Jedi Order, there was no order to abandon as it was destroyed and all the Jedi went into hiding.

      Revan left the known galaxy as a Jedi but returned and called himself a Sith Lord, thus he was no longer one untill he was reaccepted by the Jedi Order.

      You also have to take into consideration who calls them jedi… in Star Wars universe people tend to call anyone with a light saber or force powers a Jedi. Jedi is a title given by the order – if you formaly stop being it’s member you are no longer given the title. So technicaly you can break the tenets and still be a Jedi – untill you get exiled from the Jedi Order.

    • Oiy,

      First of all, Yoda and Obiwan did not “abandon the order” to think that they did would be foolish. Yoda and Obiwan both continued to preach the tenets of the order and still sought to live in balance with the Force.

      Jolee Bindo, for example, left the order (in his own mind) but did not give up the tenets of the Jedi. He did not begin actively seeking war. He did not stop following the Jedi Code.

      Qui-Gon never broke the tenets. He simply disagreed with the council and disobeyed the council. The Mandalorian that was brought up actively abandoned the Jedi and took up the philosophical outlook of the Mandalorians which is impossible to reconcile with the beliefs of the Jedi Order.

      If you leave the Order then return later then you once again become a Jedi. In the case of the Jedi turned Mandalorian there is no indication that such an event took place. There cannot be a true Mandalorian Jedi.

      • I don’t disagree with the fact there cannot be a true Mandalorian Jedi, mainly due to the fact a Mandolorian and a Jedi can’t co-exist due to the Jedi Order’s tenets.

        I disagree with the fact leaving the order makes you not a Jedi. I see little to no clause of that being completely true.

        I’m not saying being Jedi is a religion, but the fact is that if your trained to be a Jedi, you believe in the Jedi way, and you follow the Jedi way that you are a Jedi, until you decide to break the tenets and decide you are not a Jedi.

        Luke Skywalker being a prime example. He wasn’t a part of the order until after the movies. And that order was his own. but he is considered a Jedi after he confronts and faces Vader.

        I also don’t believe there is any Jedi who has left the order, and not return [I am not including those who fall to the darkside, because they are no longer jedi as soon as the break their tenets.]

        • Before you jump the gun. I also mean anyone who breaks the tenets, ie becoming a mando and acting in a way not appropriate of a jedi, isn’t included.

          There are however those who break tenets and reside within the Jedi Order. Most of them fall to the darkside. Anakin is a good example.

  2. Hello Jedi Master Walsh,

    I was thinking of venturing into the written word of Star Wars, I went into a star wars wiki and saw the list… After recovering from minor shock that left me looking like a cross eyed monkey with Absynthe I descided I really need to get a proffesional opinion. About the books I mean. There are e-books, actual books, side books, not books and standard books. As I prefer actual paperback\hardback books, As a new starter what book series\collections should I get and where what era should I start? (I know that’s a lot to ask but I really have an urge to read all of them but I don’t know where to start!)

    Your Faithful Apprentice.

    Az

  3. Luke was not the most powerful force user ever. Per George Lucas, Emperor Palpatine was the most powerful of all time. Vader has the highest potential but because he lost many body parts he could never live up to that potential. Luke is a baby compared to Palpatine. Only Palpatine could hide that the force from all jedi.

    • You could also consider Venku Skirata (or Kad/Kad’ika Skirata) as a Jedi/Mando. He’s the son of Jedi Etain Tur-Mukan and clone commando Darman and was trained by Bardan Jusik…

  4. Dear Jedi,

    In an earlier post, I see that you listed Luke Skywalker, Darth Sidious, Yoda, Darth Vader and Nomi Sunrider. Yet there is a lot of debate as to whether or not Galen Marek, aka Starkiller, would be able to take on the mighty Jedi Master Luke himself.

    I looked into it, and -incidentally- the character, “Starkiller,” was intended to be the original protagonist for Episode IV before the final script was written and they went with Luke Skywalker, so it seems to me that Starkiller is a legitimate character in the Star Wars universe.

    So with that established, who would have won in a battle? Luke Skywalker or Starkiller?

  5. In my own opinion with the one who came the closest was revan he did master both sides and his teachings created some pretty powerful people darth bane darth Sidious darth maul in tech darth vadar I doubt even naga sadow could defeat him one on one and as for sion not in skill just in force ability traya was to relient on force where as revan held his own against 3 Jedi masters and battle medatation hell the only reason he lost was because of malak shooting his ship if anikan had been trained by revan and not been destroyed by magma he would best revan but doubt it exar kun would come the closest and don’t even bring up that pussy Luke he lost to his father 2 times and his father was sooo slow at that point couldn’t even kill Sidious Ashoka would demolish luke in a fight and that no one can deny

  6. I realise this is a couple of years late, but I would say the closest thing to a Mandalorian Jedi would be Freedom Nadd, not to be confused with Freedon Nadd. He, to our knowledge is still a member of the Jedi order, but was also adopted into the Mandalorian protectors. He’s not quite a true Mandalorian but is definatley a Jedi and a sort of honorary Mandalorian.

  7. I would have to disagree with your top list but in that you left someone out, Starkiller was almost the living embodiment of the force. He pulled a star destroyer out of the sky for crying out-loud. His training was always in the extreme, with the idea that anytime he used the force it was at maximum potential. There for he was never trained restraint and was abused if he showed any at all. Which in turn made grow exponentially in the use of the force at all times. Luke is cool and all, but Starkiller would probably wipe the floor with him. He defeated Vader in a dual, and Sidious, his potential was immense.

  8. I have to agree with Hays. Starkiler was better then Luke in every way. He beat Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, he pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky and he was excellent with the lightsaber. He literally never lost, the only reason he died was because he jumped in front of Raham Kota so he wouldn’t die.

    • Imamnotdartrevan says:

      According to what I’ve read about Darth Revan, I belive he is to be the strongest force wielder ever in Star Wars history. Revan used to be a Jedi and a Sith and combined ultimate techniques like absorbe and deflect force, heal and physicaly damage his enemies without touching them.

  9. Yeeeeaaaaa, let’s be real, Luke is a little shitter no matter what the cannon books say. Im pretty sure he could not create huge force storms and decimate entire fleets or battlecruisers with the blink of an eye like Sidious. Anakin shoulda been a nasty nasty Sith, but like mentioned above, he’s partially retarded. Starkiller destroyed Vader, yes, but I’m almost certain Sidious activated pussy mode: “I’m too weak, don’t kill me, please! NO PLEASE! …… POWER!!!!!!! UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” like when he fought Windu just to get Anakin to complete he descent to the dark side ,just in this case to annihilate the aspiring Rebel Leaders and Starkiller. So technically, Starkiller didn’t really defeat him. And uhhh are we forgetting Vitiate?? Although we don’t really know the extent of his power but he was assumably really powerful to survive 300 years, consume all the highest ranking Sith Lord’s power after Naga Sadow’s Republic invasion got shat on and orchestrate the Empire’s succesful invasion and conquering of the Republic despite the idiotic Treaty of Coruscant. Sooo fuck Luke ;) My bet is on Sidious being the most powerful ever and don’t even mention Krayt…

    • *fleets of battlecruisers

      And Vitiate also consumed an entire planet’s “Force Energy”, let’s put it, I dont know the exact term… Let’s go:

      1-Sidious (& Anakin at full human non-robotic dark side potential)
      2-Starkiller
      3-Luke
      4-Vader
      5-Vitiate
      6-Revan (just cuz he’s a boss :P)

  10. Anonsithmas says:

    Many have been left out here… Nihilus would crush all of those if it were not for his weakness for his apprentice, Revan could create a force bond with near anyone, making them fall for him or kill themselves if they struck him down, not to mention being in full emotional control while still using dark side force powers.

    Starkiller can crash an imperial capital ship with the force

    Not even mentioning tulak hord As Kreia said, his skills make the current Jedi and Sith seem like “children playing with toys” and “The great Tulak Hord once pulled a ship this size from the sky.” (a ship the size of the endar spire.

  11. The Apitamy of the Dark Side says:

    My Top 5 Force Users
    1. Luke/Anakin Skywalker (full potential realized)
    2.Sidious
    3.Revan (debatable placing based on memory deletion)
    4.Starkiller
    5.Yoda

  12. Per George Lucas you know the creator of Star Wars Luke is the strongest than Sidious due to the fact Vader got all fucked up and chopped to pieces. But I you include EU it’s so debated able and tough to say.

    Nihlius could absorb force users so if it wasn’t for the Exlie being a scar in the force he would never be beat, but then Revan and Bane could absorb force…. Visate lived for over 1000 years not 300… An even revan at his full strength(who might I add absorbed his Force STORM not just lighting.) my list is on overall power/ skill which as Plagious say Maidaclorian count doesn’t make you the strongest. Hence Sidious having the second highest count got Plagious drunk because he was still afraid of him. Also star killer could take a ship out of the sky. Sadow make an entire systems go Supernova, which is a little more impressive. But here is my list which I’m sure ill want to change a million times.

    Again Nihliius would consume all force around him if not for another scar in the force aka the exhile.
    Visate( only person to beat revan 1 on 1)
    Revan( who force stormed a Rakata fleet)
    Sidious( controlled the whole universe)
    Yoda(able to beat Sidous but failed)
    Darth Bane(thought bomb)

  13. VAMP MOORE says:

    According to all of the media canon that was approved by Lucas(who had absolute authority over the Star Wars Universe), Galen Marek, codenamed Starkiller, aka The Apprentice, was in fact, the most powerful force user. Darth Vader, knew this when he was first confronted by Galen after Vader killed his father. That’s why he worked so hard to control and then later clone him. Vader knew how powerful he was and kept trying to keep him under control.
    Darth Bane, on the other hand, was the most powerful Sith. Wiping out the entire Sith army and Acolytes and hundreds of thousands of Jedi, with a technique that was fabled but never used sites his incredible power and discipline.
    But, lest anyone forget, Jacen Solo, aka Darth Cadeus, did manage to control entire fleets, hide from the Force, and manipulate an entire galaxy. Only way that Jaina could kill him was to fight with the wild abandon of Mandalorian training.
    Ben Skywalker is also becoming quite powerful as he gets stronger and older, as well. Just how powerful, the stories have yet to tell.

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