Posted by ReDDoT in Blue Milk & Cereal | 41 Comments
Blue Milk & Cereal: Do You Like The Idea Of A Real Cash Auction House?
No day would be complete without the breakfast of Jedi: Blue Milk & Cereal. Every morning, the team at Ask A Jedi will get Force-induced thoughts coursing through your head with delicious issues from around the galaxy! Join in the discussion below to make your voice heard!
Yesterday Blizzard announced that the upcoming Diablo 3 will feature a “Real Money Auction House“, essentially allowing players to buy and sell in-game items to each other using cold, hard cash, out of which Blizzard takes a cut. This news sparked both positive and negative feedback and even had some heavy resonance on TOR forums, where the majority of people (over 75%) state that they would only support the game if no micro-transactions of any kind are present in TOR. In this case, the micro-transactions are technically player-to-player. To many, that may or may not make a difference.
Personally, I strongly oppose any notion of “pay-to-win” approach in any game. I believe that part of the fun lies in the difficulty of acquiring a particular item, rather than quickly getting it via a cash shop. Not only that, but it causes issues in game balance, in-game economy and many other aspects of the MMO genre. Finally, it removes any feeling of achievement in game when a similar, or better, item can be acquiring just by taking out your credit card.
We want to know – Is a new lightsaber worth $25 to you? Does it bother you that the money is going to another real player? Or is that better than having it go to the company? Vote and comment below!
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Honestly… I’m going to call it innovation. It will be interesting to see if players can get rich in real-life doing this.
Although this seems to out-right bless chinese gold farmers.
No. Stop being greedy. Blizzard should get ready to fall on their swords. They royally screwed themselves over with the D3 AH idea. Hardly anyone I’ve talked to likes it. The only people who do are very greedy themselves and want to use it to not have to work. Bioware had better not do this in TOR or the game will most certainly fail to attract a majority of players. Pay to win is NOT ok regardless of if I’m buying from players or the company.
The thing is, BW doesn’t exactly hold control over the finical part of the game. That’s EA’s territory.
This, to me, is one of the worst ideas i’ve ever seen in a video game. I’m not one for the bash Blizzard bandwagon. I played WoW from open beta until about two years ago with only minor breaks here and there in that time. I own Diablo II and the expansion, and I’ve played through them both multiple times. My point is, I typically support Blizzard and fee they have a history as a strong developer.
That said, this is just a horrible concept that I feel has no place in gaming. It almost feels like the heads at Blizzard got together in a room and tried to come up with a way to live up to the worst possible reputation that anti-Blizz folks have tried to give them. This just feels like it creates the worst possible precedent and I honestly think I might boycott the game as a result of this decision. I already struggled with the idea of trying to play both TOR and Diablo 3 and this just might seal it.
I loathe micro-transactions in games i already pay for. If I’m paying a monthly fee for your game, don’t try to sell me other things within the game. Even things like character name changes, server transfers, and similar services that Blizzard has long charged for (IMO) should be free. If TOR ends up with MTs in the game or a monthly fee over 15, I’ll have a hard time supporting the game. Which is unfortunate because I’ve been following this game as long as humanly possible.
Bad decisions at the finishing line can ruin a game for me though. I followed WAR for a long time, then about a month or so from release they announced they were cutting several classes and restricting the game to a single pair of capital cities. That was such a red flag for me I never bought the game. Developers need to understand the impact these types of announcements can have, and I hope Bioware has really watched how the fans feel about these issues.
I couldn’t agree more on everything you said.
This decision has actually made me decide not to get Diablo III out of principle alone.
I understand there are underground ways to get items via “mules” and what not but for a Blizzard to support it really surprises me.
This truly is BLizzard just “getting their cut”.
I will never play a game that is a pay as you go game (even if it initially starts as a free to play game); it is widely known those more willing to pay have an advantage over those who are not.
I truly believe Bioware has more integrity than allowing something like this ruin their game.
I am actually really disappointed to see the “monster” Blizzard has become since WoW.
The fact one has to purchase Starcraft 2 3 times in order to experience the full story really goes to show how greedy Blizzard has become.
SHAME ON THEM
I wont be getting Diablo 3 either. All blizzard die was pull down their pants and bend over for Bioware and SWTOR with the D3 AH idea.
I don’t think it’s horrible, they are not forcing you to buy items with the real currency. You can still buy items with gold.
You also don’t have to use the auction house system at all.
I don’t really care about the idea,I can see ways people will manipulate it but that is not my problem. I will buy the game even with this addition.
Then some people will be able to bget all the good stuff instantly, while others will necer get it, or even sell it to make some money.
The whole concept made me facepalm
Get* never*
I feel like it sets a really bad precedent for future games and F2P MMO’s. Mostly, it shows the greed of Blizzard. They know companies will be selling the in-game items through online stores, so instead of stopping these businesses from doing this, they’re just going to capitalize on it and even worse streamline it.
stopping f2p companies from making profit?? That is how this companies rely on and source of their money. The companies have pay to play yeah that should be stopped but f2p companies should be allowed to have a source for their hard work.
The whole thing makes me really nervous, for several reasons.
One is that Blizzard intends to take a cut, of course, which means to me that they are doing it just to increase their revenue. And while I have no problem with companies keeping an eye on the bottom line, I would like to think that their revenue is for something they’ve accomplished, not just skimming off the top. That sounds selfish of me, but… I guess my experience with Sims 3 has made me very wary of anything with the same flavor. I’ve heard people call MMOs like LotR “Pay to win” and this sounds like it’s … inching closer and closer to that.
The other issue I have is the “nickle and dime” problem. I know I’m not the only person who has a lot of trouble tracking my finances when I’m paying $1.00 here, $2.00 there. MMOs have always been great for me, because I know exactly how much they will cost me: the game plus a fee, and I’m done. For me and for others like me, this concept of spending more money inside your MMO, even (or especially) if it’s just a few bucks at a time, is very dangerous.
It’s not a big cut first off, and to the looks of it not many people will be buying items with real currency when they can use in game currency.
What i’ve heard is a possible 3% cut
I think it’s system that has a huge potential to work in a game like Diablo. I do NOT think it will work in a ‘typical’ MMO such as SWTOR, WOW, Warhammer, etc.
I applaud Blizzard for trying this out. And for the record, they have had this system in development for Diablo 3 for at least 18 months before announcing it.
It depends on the game. After reading Bashioks (sp) posts, I am really not mad about this issue. D3 is at most, a co-op game in which you and friends can go dungeon crawling. Since they are all random and the loot tables are random, farming item X is not really possible.
As he stated, websites were very popular for this kind of trading, buying and selling, so why not make it in-house? I would never support a company that sells their own currency (EvE is different), but if the AH is separate, and you do not need to participate, I see no issue.
I would hope this feature never comes to MMOs, as they have a fine line to balance in terms of achievements, progression, etc.
Since D3 is more of a single-player game with multiplayer elements and is soley PvE, I see no issue with that kind of system.
Games that make use of this system are sad. As a college student money is scarce to begin with and a monthly subscription expensive enough as it were. I refuse to play a game that nickels and dimes its players in such a way. Its unfair system to those with little money and far too easy for those who have money.
I mean .. come on I’m Zlatto the concept of anything increasing the interest of players in the AH’s and crafting is usually exciting to me. BUT even I die a little in side on this one. The feels like pay2win a bit. Now, if the micro transactions were for items that allow customization, personalization of the characters, the mounts, personal habitats, then I say go forth and multiply. How is this any different then what Blizzard has banned ppl in game for in the past? (well other than making sure they get a cut like meaning looking pimp on a street corner)?
What I find interesting is that people did not complain when TF2 went F2P. Valve has a game with a box cash shop, you can buy weapons, hats, paint colors, etc. Yet no one really made a stir about it, items that directly effect play can be bought, but when Blizzard adds an AH option people go crazy?
Is it the type of game? The developer? I a not sure. So Valve can get away with it but Blizzard cannot?
Well I for one never play first person shooters. I am speaking from the point of view of it impacting a game I would play, not all games in general No long hours of chasing down materials to craft a great item or even longer trips into the PvP arena winning badges to get that one item to increase your ability or possibly the most painful one …Looking for Group. But all of these efforts are tangible in game. All i can write is to the articles name “do YOU like” and I do not. Whether Blizzard or Valve makes no difference to me, but I again only play a specific style.
This isn’t micro-transactions. That’s a completely different debate, and there are plenty of people (myself included) against the use of MTs in games. This is a system where players are able to sell items in game that others can buy with real money. There’s a difference there, subtle though it may be.
Not many people complained because you can get hats, weapons, and accessories from drops too. Colors, mini-duels, and keys for those Mann-co crates on the other hand are only obtained with real $$$.
I buy guns in All Points Bulletins: Reloaded. All the veterans and well known players mostly agree these weapons aren’t any more powerful (some even weaker) than available late-progress weapons. Which will take around 100 hours of gameplay to start unlocking.
I already had these guns unlocked when I started buying my first guns for real money, they are relatively cheap, I paid 10 euro total for a Primary and a Secondary weapon.
Why? Because after playing a game for a year you get bored and trying out new things keeps it more interesting. Also, in MMOs a lot of the weapon unlocks don’t feel like an achievement, or an accomplishment, because no skill is involved. Just a required amount of time/grind to put in to get it.
If I can choose to spend those 100 hours actually having fun rather than waste it grinding ill gladly pay some money for it. Of course, there are limits to this. APB:R is much more about skill than items anyway. An MMORPG is a lot more about equipment to begin with. And getting certain items (Raiding) does require skill, etc.
So i don’t think it would be a good idea if you could get all items equal to end-game raiding just by paying for it. Also, APB:R is a free 2 play game for the rest of it. So I think RTM is acceptable then. SWTOR will feature a monthly subscription though, so i don’t think item RMT really fits the model.
I’d be fine with things such as cosmetics, mounts, funny hats, etc.
What I am severely opposed to is charging ridiculously high prices for automated services like Character Transfers, Faction Changes, Race Changes, Character re-customization, Name changes etc. Like Blizzard does in WoW. These prices stand in no relation to their costs. I think a time restriction and lower prices is the way to go for that. They will cause players to play and thus pay for longer anyway.
I think the biggest thing here is these are player-to-player micro-transactions… I don’t think that has happened before, has it?
Ehm. Probably not in this fashion entirely that I can think of. APB had RTW points, which you could use to pay your monthly subscription. Players could sell items / money on the marketplace for RTW points. I had enough RTW points to pay for a year of subscription by selling my in-game money.
I think it’s going to be hard to implement this into a game like WoW or SWTOR though. Ninja looting for one will see an all time high. Who is going to pass on that super rare item when you can sell it for a 100 bucks?
Not to mention that according to US gambling laws if your in-game currency can in any way translate to having a real world currency value then any in-game gambling becomes restricted by actual gambling laws. There’s a big chance rolling for an item could be considered gambling in that context
I would like tosee how this worked before shooting down. But can’t see how this would not turn into an all new level of farming. Now if it was where you had to take an in game gun and could change the look of it at a very high level above what I could make my self then I might buy it.
I think its a terrible idea but it takes out some of the learning experience.
With in game currency auction houses, players get the chance to play around with money that doesn’t really matter and learn valuable skills that they can apply to real life. I’m sure Zlatto has some interesting stories about thing like this.
I also would bet money that in SW:TOR there will be no ‘pay-to-win’, there is no company that would or does this, it’s all cosmetic.
Not entirely true. There are several MMOs that have gone “free to play”, but they make up their profit by making you pay for large chunks of content, including the best gear. That’s what we call “pay to win”.
Real money auctions are a hidden micro transaction. While the dev makes out like a bandit, the user makes very little.
The only real benefit I see from a system like this is actually very indirect; It’s a disincentive for black market sales of game currency and items.
I’d be fine with it if it was limited to vanity items only. In no was should they allow for you to buy your 1337 toon in a game with a monthly subscruption.
My “It’s Complicated!” explanation: For a game like Diablo, a real money auction house makes sense. Consider: The game is free to play (Diablo always has been) without any way for the company to continue making any revenue for long term server upkeep, data expenses, game support, and the like. It’s been a true free to play, not the free to play that everyone considers when they hear that phrase today. So, where would the revenue stream come from for them to provide those long term support services?
Personally, I think the cash auction house is a perfect solution for them. It’s purely optional: you can’t get anything through the auction house that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to get in game on your own, and you could trade directly with players, or only deal in in game gold. The cash transactions would have taken place anyway (and yes, I know that that alone is not a good enough reason), and this way Blizzard can provide a safe way for people who choose to take part in cash transactions to do so.
I will also mention that along with this feature comes the vastly increased responsibility to track and ban those who would cheat the system (with bots or other out of game programs to give them an edge).
Overall, I believe this is a system that works for a game like Diablo. But we shouldn’t expect to see a system like this in games like SWTOR, WoW, or Rift because they are fundamentally different animals. Not only is gear handled differently, but these are also not free to play games. With the monthly fee comes the expectation that these kinds of cash transactions are strictly verboten.
As I have thought more on this, it also legitimizes gold/item farming as a means for making money. Someone can play for hundreds of hours, farming gold and items, and selling them for profit. That same person can even sell the character he or she has used to farm all of this stuff for additional profit. Seeing the issues with hacking and gold farming in WoW, Blizzard actually chose to make this easier for people doing this sort of thing?
There was an article a month or two back discussing the fact that Chinese prisons force prisoners into farming gold and items in WoW and other MMOs as a form of punishment. All jokes about gaming as punishment aside, being forced to do it for 12-16 hours each day would be hellish. Blizzard seems to have implemented a system that not only allows this type of behavior, but makes it completely legitimate. I’m not talking about hacking here, but Chinese prisons having legitimate accounts and forcing people to play in a way that does not violate the ToS for this game. I’m speculating, sure, but it’s not hard to see it as a reality.
I voted yes, not because I have any real plans to buy an item via real life money, but if you give the average player the option to sell their product/gear/gold – you cut out the shady hacker/Chinese gold farmers. My point is that it happens anyways, by legitimizing it you take away the shady element’s need to constantly spam their website because you can already buy it.
Some people are comparing this to a “pay to win” type thing, but its not, because its a peer to peer auction house, and there is in-game money and real money transactions. As long as everyone keeps a clear head the free market will keep the prices reasonable, esp. since there is a fee to post the item, regardless of whether or not it sells.
So where does it stop then?
Maybe for a game like this it may be ok but what if Blizzard milks this and implements it in other titles?
I think paying real money for an ingame item is a form of cheating and nothing can disuade me from that thought.
I mean what is the point of leveling and playing a character if you just “buy his equipment” to make him super duper oober?
We all love to have strong characters but there is something cheap about buying that character rather than earning that character.
Now if they made this so one can use in game money instead…at least it would be earned.
Here’s a thought I just had. Apparently, Diablo 3 will only be able to be played while connected to Battle.net.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/237078/blizzard_sorry_youll_have_to_be_online_to_play_diablo_iii.html
Now, maybe this is too tin-foil hat for you guys, but whose to say that even while you’re playing your single-player game, Blizzard gives drops of the rarest loot to the biggest money makers so they can take a bigger cut? Just seems like a real possibility, even if it’s not the case, but more reason why this system is flawed. I’d rather buy gear from some sketchy website than Blizzard at this point.
That’s one of the things that made me tick. Not being able to play your single-player game without internet connection? That’s beyond stupid.
You already payed 60 bucks to play the game, what happens if you happen to lose your net for say.. 1 month, you won’t be able to play Diablo 3 in that time. The devs at Blizzard only think about themselves.
I’m definitely not going to buy this game anymore.
The answer is NO. But I wanted to explain why. People will get ripped off. Talk about broken economy. You thought gold sellers was a problem? Not only can your game account get stolen, how about your credit card, and eventually identity.
I would drop the game like a bad habit if that happened.
This appears to be an attempt to defeat the gold farmers by co-opting their business model.
This idea reminds me of a plan by some police and politicians to destroy the drug cartels by legalizing, regulating, and taxing all recreational drugs. The idea that the violence and organized crime associated with the drugs industry would starve without the money supply the drugs themselves create.
The real question is will the increased cash to win auctions detract from the game more than the possibility of reduced hacking of characters will add to it.
People are going to pay for stuff anyway – it happens with all games. Companies trying to supress this have always failed. If Bioware is willing to put up a platform for this, then they should get a cut.
We should need to know how much advantage a player who is gonna buying is taking compared to an average one.
No way i want to see a dumb, unskilled, child buying some broken items in order to have an incredible strong character
Definite no from this end.
I not much into seeing a real cash auction house. If they provide something like a limited microtransaction to buy 10,000 credits a month or something through Bioware that might be okay. There should be something to counter goldsellers. But not too keen on paying real money for stuff it makes players rich from a game.